WVO Blog

There are many WVO conversion systems on the road that need an operation manual to run them.  Wait until this gauge is...then turn this...10minutes before you stop...Make sure....ect.  When I set out to develop the system for my truck, I coined the phrase "wife proof operation".  Now don't get me wrong, my wife is a very intelligent woman; medical degree and everything.  However, in order for her to drive my truck (and use WVO) on occasion, the system really has to do it all. 

 

Fast forward about two years: My wife and I are driving home from a weekend in Florida (1000 WVO trip) and I made the comment.  "I am really impressed how reliable the WVO system is on this truck!".  I almost heard the bell toll.

A week or so later, we were in the process of getting my wife a new car but had just sold her old one the day before. ( My wife is three months pregnant and a new car is apparently part of the process.)  Anyway she had to drive my truck to work about an hour away.  On the way back, she is flagged to pull over because the truck is literally spraying diesel onto the road.  Somehow, the purge solenoid broke off the valve body exposing 70psi fuel which, was getting loose in a hurry.  She of course phoned me (at home without a vehicle) so I could give instructions to the guy that pulled her over to get the truck back in running order.

Now, I need to explain a few things.  I had planned on failure in the design; I had placed quarter turn ball valves on the fuel line at the pump and on the purge line.  The idea being that if something failed, I would be able to simply turn the valve to isolate the veggie system so that it would operate as normal on diesel.  However, the ball valve was behind the solenoid valve.  While I expected it could fail, I didn't consider that it would break off.   The valves could not isolate the leak.

Back at the truck on the side of the road: a man literally walking by stopped to help and was able to thread to solenoid back into the valve.  It still leaked but was good enough to get her home.  Well almost, she ran out of diesel turning into our neighborhood and was pushed to the side of the road (again) by a couple firemen that happened to be behind her.   I got a ride from my neighbor to my stranded wife and, with a crescent wrench and a pair of pliers, removed the broken valve and simply reconnected the two loose ends together.  Since the valve is normally closed the closed ball valve replaced normal operation.  Three minutes later, I was able to start the truck on veggie and drive the truck and wife home.

Is there a lesson to the story?  I don't know, probably if it can go wrong it will.  Expect it and plan for it.  Adding a fuel system to your vehicle should make it more reliable not less so ensure that you can totally isolate the veggie fuel system and return the fuel system back to a stock configuration.  Its nothing short of amazing how reliable vehicles are today.  As far as WVO fuel systems go, mine is certainly among the best but I always bring a tool box and a spare filter, just in case.

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I have been wearing my pointy little geek hat quite a bit this month.  Re-worked the structure of the website and installed a new cart system that is integrated with my warehouse.   Bla Bla Bla What all that means is that you will have stock visibility, same day shipping and a calculated shipping cost (rather than a high flat rate).  I know there will be bugs but it is the foundation to support me providing you with the whole gambit of veggie related equipment.  We have active projects running to find cost effective components now and they will be showing up on the site as they are available.

The second part of this re-work is to organize the education Wiki portion of the website.  I have complete designs for conversions and equipment available but the organization has always been a problem.  Even with this challenge, hundreds of people have downloaded these designs and I know of a good many that have used them verbatim or as a starting point for their conversions.   While I will be devoting my attention towards updating and enriching this information, I need to promote input and feedback.  So, to the keen veggie people out there:  I need your help.  If you are working out a design on your own that I do not have, I would be willing to finance at least some portion of it if you work with me to document it. 

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I have been thinking, or rather fascinating about how the diesel engine works.  If you are like me; you can't help but visualize the inner workings of mechanical devices.  While driving down the road, I can literally "see" the injectors pumping veggie oil into the compression chamber a little before the piston reaches the top of its stroke...I did a two day road trip a couple weeks ago and the mind wonders...

Anyway, it got me to thinking about some of the workings of diesel engines and the differences between diesel fuel and WVO.  It is a beautiful think how well vegetable oil works in the diesel engine and it still puts a smile on my face every time my truck switches over from diesel to veggie.  However, I never really looked into the properties of the fuel other than the energy content and viscosity.  It is common knowledge that the primary issue with WVO is the difference in viscosity and that pre-heating the oil to 160F is necessary to match the viscosity of diesel fuel.  This will create an appropriate spray pattern from the injectors and thus produce complete combustion avoiding the dreaded residue and piston ring coking.   I have talked to people and seen kits advertizing that pre-heating the WVO with electric line heaters will reduce switch over time.  I believe that this is totally wrong and even measuring fuel temperature is unnecessary and could be misleading.

It's all about the engine temperature.  Yes, I have wrote about my feeling that the engine is going to control the temperature of the oil, regardless of the temperature it is pre-heated to.  So, hot engine, hot oil, cold engine, cold oil.  But that isn't a complete picture of what is happening in the engine at startup. (This is where I get geeky)  We know that it is the "heat of compression" that produces the heat to ignite the fuel in a "compression ignition engine".  But how much heat is produced?  Well, I could break out the ideal gas law and go from there but I found an online calculator HERE to do it for me. 
Here are a couple scenarios:

My 7.3L has a 17.5:1 compression (50% Efficient)
@ 0C (32F) - 470C (878F)
@ 15C (59F) - 511C (951F)
@ 30C (86F) - 552C (1025F)
@90C (194) - 660C (1220F)

Now, lets take a look at the fuel:

		Flash Point	Autoignition Temp
	Diesel	62 °C (143 °F)	246 °C (475 °F)
	Vegetable Oil	220 °C (430 °F)	326 °C (620 °F)

Clearing up a couple terms:

• The flash point of a volatile liquid is the lowest temperature at which it can vaporize to form an ignitable mixture in air.
• The autoignition temperature or kindling point of a substance is the lowest temperature at which it will spontaneously ignite in a normal atmosphere without an external source of ignition, such as a flame or spark

OK, so now that we have some ideal numbers for what should be happening in your engine, I will make my thoughts and conclusions:

Additional Thoughts
- I know I would be hard pressed to start my truck below 0C without glow-plugs on diesel.
- I can start my truck on Veggie on a warm summer day though it is not easy or pretty.
- I can start my truck on Veggie easily if it is at running temperature
- Idling an engine for extended periods on diesel will produce coking form un-spent fuel.

Conclusions
1) Based on these numbers you need about 2X the autoignition temperature to properly ignite the fuel.   
2) Running Veggie on anything but a hot engine will probably leave un-burnt fuel around to cause problems
3) High End Veggie systems should have a load sensor or exhaust temp switch to ensure that veggie is only being used when there is sufficient engine temperature and load.

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My first mistake was leaving the house without the roll of paper towel, I had it under my arm at one point but must have set it down before it made it to the truck. Oh well, I was on my way now and no turning back. The focus on centrifuge manufacturing has taken my attention from oil collection and now my supplies have run dry. I was headed to meet up with another local Greaser that had an extra tote of oil for me.

I had met Randy about a year previously when we both spoke to a community environmental group at the College of Charleston. Randy is a retired doctor that started using and collecting oil about six years ago. Starting with cubies then moving on to 55gallon drums then finally to 275gallon totes he has a nice clean shop with about 2000 gallon capacity. Randy's collection method is quite unique in that he actually gets the oil directly from the fryers after hours and replaces it with fresh oil. This allows him to have absolute quality control and ultimately, the nicest oil I have ever seen. I spent a couple hours at his shop getting to know him and his operation and even shot some video of him telling his story. (Watch for that on the site soon).

I hit the road home now nicely loaded a 275gallon tote of veggie but still low on diesel and empty in my veggie tank. I past a gas station that was on the wrong side of the road and while I though ominously about it figured that I would just catch the next one. Well, fate was not smiling on me and I didn't pass another station before I hit the Ravenel Bridge (highest point in South Carolina I am sure) and as I started pulling up the grade I knew I had made a mistake as I lost power and coasted to the left margin that is about a foot and a half wide, completely blocking one of four lanes of traffic. Sweet, I ran out of fuel hauling fuel.

I stepped out of the truck onto the center divider and into the truck bed to survey what I had to work with. An empty 90gallon bed tank, a full 275gallon tote, a 120V transfer pump, 3/4” hose with cam loc fittings and no inverter...Almost immediately a police officer pulled up behind me with lights on helping to divert traffic. By the time he approached me I had decided that it might be possible to use a 5' section of hose to siphon from the tote to my veggie tank. He watched as I played Hover on the hose and managed to get a steady flow of veggie into the bed tank without even getting a mouth full of oil. Good think that tote was full! We chatted about vegetable oil, engineering and southern ladies for a minute until I noticed that the level had dropped in the tote showing that I had transferred 20 gallons or so then went to give it a try. I recall the officer saying “Do you think this is going to work”. I primed the veggie pump and line with the purge override and the system confirmed that I had fuel pressure. When I turned it over, she fired right up but died when my veggie controller recognized the loss of power (from the starting relay) to be a shutdown and then initiated a purge. Normally, I don't start on veggie and if I did, the diesel pump would maintain pressure during this time. However, since there was no diesel the engine would die from lack of fuel (again). This was disappointing, and my mid raced to solve the problem of how to disable the purge valve. I probably would have disconnected the wires from it except that it is under the vehicle on the passenger side and towards traffic. It was still early afternoon and I didn't want to get run over yet. Fortunately, I had a better idea and pulled the fuse panel to access the controller relays, after a moment of “do I pull the green wire or the red wire”? I disconnected the relay for the switch and she fired right up.

The officer helped me enter traffic and across four lanes so that I could make the next exit on the other side of the bridge. While the truck ran, air in the line robbed me of full power and it was a bit of a nerve racking mile or so till I could pull off the highway to a gas station (which didn't have diesel). My truck was now happily running on veggie now so I thanked the officer for his help and he went on his way. Total time blocking traffic on the bridge was maybe 5 minutes, the taste of vegetable oil in my mouth was not unpleasant but I did wish I hadn't forgot those paper towels.

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Pardon me while I get a little philosophical; fact is, the business part of this website ( The Raw Power Centrifuge) is doing very well and I thank my many happy customers for their show of faith.

However, while the centrifuge and its aggressive pricing has contributed to the WVO community in a positive way, the original purpose of this site was to be a community hub for the development of designs relating to WVO. ie, vehicle conversions, collection systems, filtering systems, ect. The concept is that if the community contributes to the designs, the designs will be Open Source and free to the community. Kinda a “many hands makes light work” and everyone benefits.

Where I am coming from:

Two years ago, when I woke up and told my wife “I wanted to drive a vehicle on vegetable oil” I got on the net to gather information on how to do it. Almost immediately I found two things:

1)While all the information needed is available if you look hard enough, it is spread far and wide and mixed with confusion and misinformation.

2)Many of the “Businesses” in the WVO field did not offer unique products; they offered over priced information plus a collection of off-the-shelf hardware store components. Since there was few proprietary components, the industry guarded the knowledge of how to do things to protect their business. No fault to them, its just how it goes.

Since I grew up as a west coast hippie (possibly 20 years late), have an design engineering background and am an Alternative Energy enthusiast. I feel that I can lead this effort for the benefit of the WVO community. Over the past year, through this website, I have talked to hundreds of people tackling very similar problems. It would help everyone if we could just pull together to solve them and be able to share with others who in turn add their improvements.

So, I can lead the charge by organizing the data and supporting the development of say: a conversion kit for every vehicle, but I am not going to go do it all solo if the community doesn't want it.

I would appreciate feedback on:
a) Do you see the value of it?
b) Can you help?
c) Suggestions on projects.

Leon Griffin
WVO Designs

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For the forth of July weekend, my wife Ann and I decided to go camping outside of Asheville, NC. For the 800mile trip, I ran a batch of oil through my trusty Raw Power Centrifuge and filled up my 90Gallon tank. I had not been doing much driving lately and had a little less that a quarter of fuel in the diesel tank. As always, I brought along a light tool box however normaly it contains a replacement filter; I had used my last filter coming home from the Keys and had neglected to get a replacement. (ominous foreshadowing)

 

We hit the road out of Charleston, SC Thursday in the midst of the 5pm rush (as usual) but made good time to Spartanburg where we started for a quick dinner. Then things got interesting: When I started the, now hot, truck back up and flipped the veggie system back on. The veggie pump came on as per normal but the diesel pump did not turn off. After a few moments of flipping things on and off to no avail, we completed the final 100 miles with both pumps running. Because my design works on check valve at the engine, the diesel pump should simply circulate fuel through the filter housing back to the tank as it would in normal operation given that the veggie pump is producing more pressure (as it should). None the less, my mind was doing the usual system tear-down deducing the problem. My conclusion was that the pressure switch was failing.

Over the weekend, we drove into town a few times and did a drive down the Blue Ridge Parkway to a hike where the system operated as it should about 75% of the time, the remaining 25% with the pressure switch stuck open and both pumps running. One of us had a good time driving a 6000lb vehicle like a sport car. In any case we burnt a lot of veggie and I could tell, when the pressure switch was working that I was getting to the end of the filter life. Of course there was no chance to get a replacement filter on the long weekend so I just let it do what it could and suplimented with the 1/8 tank of diesel that I had.

Then things got more interesting; I am pretty sure that my diesel fuel gauge had actually increasing slightly. I know that I should have been consuming diesel but I was reading almost a ¼ of a tank by Sunday and the truck was not starting as quickly as usual. One or both of the check valves on the diesel side were allowing veggie to be pushed into the diesel tank. Since I was quite low on diesel this was noticeable on the gauge and produced mixture of veggie/diesel significantly high enough to affect starting performance. Average temperature was 70-80F.

While I could have shut the veggie system down and driven on diesel, we made the 350mile drive home with both pumps running, an expiring filter, and probably leaky check valves. This consumed the ¼ tank of fuel (mix) in the diesel tank. I put 15 gallons of diesel in the diesel tank as we pulled back into Charleston, ensuring that I had now a high percentage of diesel to flush the engine with.

In retrospect, it has burned me every time I have gone on a trip without a filter. Better to have one and not use it; kinda like my experience with umbrellas. As for the veggie system, it has been running for almost two years but I would have liked to see better life from the pressure switch. I am going to replace it along with a filter asap. The check valves are a pain in the ass to replace but I will get some of the stainless ones ordered for when I get worked up enough to change them.

My final word on this is: Its not about IF a failure will happen, its WHEN and you need to plan and design accordingly. Three things failed on the veggie system during this trip and I was never at risk of being stranded. In the end we drove about 800 miles on 7 gallons of diesel...not bad mileage per dollar for a 6000lb vehicle....

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Monday of Memorial Day.

I found myself on a 50' sport fishing boat, anchored, drinking beer and taking in the sun and the passing bikinis. Who would have expected that also on the boat was a senior Cummins Engineer that specialized in fuel system development. We talked, and drank more beer. This is what I gathered from the conversion in respect to WVO as an alternative fuel in diesel engines.

1. Clean it - Literally the first thing he said was that it needed to be clean of solid contaminants. Obviously the fuel needs to pass through the injectors, but he also pointed out that the fuel is also the lubrication for parts of the fuel delivery system. Abrasive contaminants in the oil will cause scoring in the injector and IP parts leading to a costly repair. Also, generally speaking, newer engines have much smaller injector sizes require higher pressures; they also will be less tolerant to contaminants and alternative fuels.

    

2. Older Engines – As emission standards have increased the engines have changed to accommodate. In addition to improving combustion with changes to the fuel delivery system; the latest generation engines starting in '08 now have “after treatment devises”. You can think of AFDs a similar to catalytic converters of gasolene engines. One exception, is that the AFD will collect carbon deposits and the engine computer will regularly need to “re-gen” the AFD by injecting fuel into the exhaust to burn off/ clean the AFD. Alternative fuels in this type of system will almost certainly be full of problems.

    

3. Load and Duty Cycle – This is where things got interesting for me as my primary concern with WVO is coking of the combustion chamber, piston ring failure, cylinder scoring ect. My understanding is that by starting on diesel and only using WVO in a hot engine. I am avoiding the excessive carbon deposits by avoiding the incomplete combustion associated with starting on WVO. However, this appears to be only part of the picture. Clearly WVO has more of a tendency to leave carbon deposits than diesel but even diesel can produce the same problems when associated with low engine temperatures. The other side of the equation is that high engine temperatures correct the problem. Similar to how new diesel engines burn off the AFD of carbon; high load/high engine temperatures will burn off carbon deposits in the engine. Also interesting is that this can be accomplished in as little as 5minutes of high load/temperature.

So, what does this all mean to you and I?

Mostly, business as usual; clean oil is still critical to long term WVO success. New engines 04-07 may be more difficult to convert to use waste oils, 08+ engines may not even be possible to convert to alternative fuels. The real news here is that even though you have an expensive automated two tank conversion; if you drive like a grandmother; you could still be causing damage to your engine. The other side to that is that if you “drive it like you stole it” you may be able to get away with no conversion at all. Assuming that you can start on whatever blend you have in the tank.

I still recommend a dedicated fuel system for WVO; lets face it, the probability of something plugging up, failing or just going wrong is very high. Do the conversion right and you will not reduce the reliability of the vehicle for cold starting or long trips. However, everyone running WVO must find a way to “burn out” the engine at least every couple months. Trucks: pull something heavy up a hill, down the highway, sustained full power is what you are looking for. Cars: its rally time, drive it like you stole it, hard on the throttle, hard on the breaks. Be safe, have fun, and know that you are doing your engine good.

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I bought a Frybrid 04-07 Dodge Truck conversion and I don't even know anyone with a Dodge truck!

My "Master Plan" is do a series of conversion reviews from the leading conversion builders. When I was getting into WVO it was endlessly frustrating trying to compare the various kits on the market. I intend to change that and, since I don't have any affiliation with any of the manufactures, I don't have any problem saying what I honestly think. Such as " $50 and a trip to the hardware store will get you as far as this kit". Possibly I am pessimistic, but I do think that there are a few out there that are taking advantage of the non technical public. That said, I am starting with one that I feel confident to be one of the best.

Now, here is the opportunity, I can review the kit and parts on my bench and that will provide some value. However, we really need to install it.

So, who is looking for a good deal on a Frybrid Dodge kit AND a hand installing it?

Also, along these lines, if you have a kit that you haven't installed yet and could use a hand or just want to contribute. Let me know if you are in a 500mile radius from Charleston, SC.

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The boat was hitched, kiteboards, beer and fishing poles all loaded.  My wife and two other couples hit the road and headed south.  Destination: Islamorada, Florida Keys. 

 

In case you don't already know, I drive a 2001 F350 2WD with my Raw Power conversion that I have freely posted on this site (sign in and download it if you are interested).  I have a 90Gallon tank and was planning on bringing an additional 55gallons to complete the 1700 mile trip. However, in the furry of trying to get ready to go, I decided to just go with the 90gallons topped to the brim and I actually pinched off the breather hose so that I wouldn't be leaving a trail of oil for the first 100 miles.  

 

We got underway and the truck switched over to WVO without issue  before we hit the Cooper River Bridge and I got to pull full power over the biggest hill in South Carolina for an initial shake down.  After approximately 5 hours into the trip, location, northern Florida, 80mph, the WVO system was unable to maintain above 65psi and started to kick on the diesel pump.  Slowing down would correct the problem initially but after another hour, the veggie system just couldn't keep up.  Keep in mind, I am pulling a 21ft, Sea Fox that isn't exactly aerodynamic and would say using 80-90% of full power.  Also, I had at least 5000miles on this filter so we pulled over at a rest stop and I Nascar changed the fuel filter.  Hitting the road again, the issue appeared to be addressed but after only a few miles the veggie system was once again unable to keep up at full power.  In frustration, I flipped off the veggie system and drove on.  After a few minutes, I could re-engage the veggie system and it would work for a few minutes then deteriorate.  More frustration.  We pulled over for breakfast and I started to give the system a look over.  Everything appeared to be working and I finally went to have a look in the veggie tank.  Pssst was the sound when I removed the cap..."dumb ass" was the second thought to pass through my mind after the obvious realization that I had left the tank breather pinched off!  I corrected the breather issue and we completed the remainder of the 700 mile trip on veggie without incident other than a "detour" through a bad part of Miami when we somehow lost the Florida turnpike.  Total time 14hours.  Approx Veggie Fuel Econ 10mpg.

We spent 8 days living the life.  In which time I got on to fillup4free.com and found a source of oil about 5 miles from where I was staying.  I happily payed $1/gallon for reasonably clean WVO and topped up my tank to about 80gallons.  (I left the breather alone).  On the return trip I did have to change the filter at about half way (one of the 5gallon cubies looked a little suspect) but smooth sailing at 70-80mph the whole time.

Random observations:  

 

-I did notice a minor power difference between diesel and WVO on the way down when I was flipping between WVO and Diesel.  

 

-I can't imagine a WVO system that runs both the diesel and WVO through the same filter.  Often, when you WANT power, you NEED power.  I would avoid such an arrangement at any cost.

 

-My big bed tank will allow me to suck air into the WVO system due to sloshing when WVO level is low, this is annoying and  I spend a lot of time trying to devise a bolt-on system that would address that.

 

-I don't know that I live south enough yet!

 

 

 

-Leon 

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I am loading up Big White with 130 Gallons of Centrifuged WVO and heading down to the Florida Keys for the week to do some fishing, kitesurfing and a little bit of nothing!  In addition to the fuel and gear, I will be pulling a 21ft fishing boat for the 1400 mile round trip.  Assuming I make it back, I will give you all a report on the mileage and any special events that come up relating to the use of WVO.  

Also, I have been working on a video showcasing the assembly (or disassembly) of the Raw Power Centrifuge.  Below is a draft/sneak peek as I will be unable to finish it before I leave, the final version will have higher quality rendering and sound.  Enjoy.

 

( you have to expand this post to see it!)

 

Leon

 

 

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